Greatest Producers (You started it Grip)
After Grip’s post about the Greatest Emcees I figured it’s only right that we dedicate a post to the producers.
Who gives a shit about rappers anymore? Really? Would that song have been different if Jay was on it as opposed to Wayne? Admit it, you only listen to the beat. That’s why there is a million (mille, no pun intended) “remixes” where everyone raps over the latest/hottest beat. (you win bangladesh)
We can make arguments all day about who was most influential or who originated what, I would rather talk about who we like the most currently.
all-time
current
July 11th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I hate to say it but I’m so unaware of who prodices these days…. 9th wonder is over rated….. Timbo went crazy….. I still like what ant does with atmosphere honestly…. Prince paul is my favorite, him or bdk (yeah he produces too) marly marl gets love… But for RIGHT NOW, I guess whoever made snoops album so diverse and good. Holla!
July 11th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
RZA, Quik, Timbo, Dre, Premier
July 11th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Quincy Jones, Pete rock, Premo, Dre ( but most people don’t know chronic and 2001 were co-produced ), J Dilla ( i feel the pharcyde joints the most), hi-tek (reflection eternal = insane). My honorable mentions go to kanye ( i like his beats alot more than his rhymes), INSIGHT! (crazy gritty dope) J. Rawls (the tracks on blackstarrs only album are wild). I could really name bout 50 more cats.. theres a lot more tight producers than rappers imo.
July 12th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Prince Paul, Premo, Pete Rock, Ali Shaheed….and then it could be whoever from there on. Geology is underrated, as is J Zone, Dre changed the game, Kanye is a lege.. I could go on for days.
July 12th, 2008 at 11:38 am
All the producers everyone named already and… Kanye, Quick, Teddy Riley, Heatmakers, Neptunes…But I would take a beat from any of the producers mentioned…lets be honest
July 12th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Polow Da Don is the illest of the new new school. Just Blaze is the illest of all the schools though. Just Blaze’s beats pull guns on everyone else’s beats and take all their money and their clothes.
July 12th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Also, Jay-Z’s “Kingdom Come” (produced by Just Blaze) is almost certainly the nastiest flip of any song. Ever.
July 12th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
dj premier, Q TIP, prince paul, young einstein (i like loops), and RZA.
July 12th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Easy Mo Bee seems to have a pretty decent track record… HITS ONLY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easy_mo_bee
July 12th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
This interview with T-ray is off the hook. I didn’t realize how many beats he is responsible for. I love his sound. Layered, filtered, dirty samples. This is a great
http://www.unkut.com/2007/08/t-ray-the-unkut-interview-part-1/
Saigon “Come on baby” beat by Just Blaze, that shit is knock-your-teeth-out-powerful
I’m going to try and think of a flip that can beat the Kingdom Come joint…
July 12th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
T-Ray is a boss for sure. Back To The Grill! Another guy who got in and out after making a handful of hits and is just loungin’ somewhere (i hope)
July 13th, 2008 at 8:32 am
he says in part three of the interview he lives in malibu in a mansion with tennis courts.
July 13th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
In Hip-hop history
RZA
Dre
.
.
.
Primo
Timbo
Prince Paul
Today
Just Blaze
.
.
.
.
.
Timbo
.
.
.
everyone else
In Music history
Smokey, Willie Mitchell, Rick Rubin, Phil Spectre, RZA, Dre, Isaac Hayes, Curtis Mayfield.
July 13th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
No love for Quincy in Music History?
July 13th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
quincy was the first cat I named.
July 13th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
oh i knows this. I was just talking about Sayre’s list that has Primo too low.
July 13th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
my vote is definitely for Smitty. Incredible. Fucking incredible. Seriously.
izz gawin daaaoowwnn….
July 14th, 2008 at 1:07 am
Quincy is the bossiest of all producers and a strong contestent in the boss of all bosses competition. But in rap, I got so much love for cats who make a handful of hits and go out strong. Like the dude who produced “poison” and “I wanna sex you up” he’s like…. Pshh, hits. Platinum, I’m out
July 14th, 2008 at 1:59 am
Color Me Badd was my first concert… no joke.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:57 am
this might be considered a blasphemous argument. Was quincy really allll that? yes, he has thriller maybe the best album ever, and the other stuff he did with mj, but what other smash hits does he have? his own albums were popular, but nothing remarkable… now look at someone like Timbo, or Rick Rubin, when they work with many different artists they have hits. They have a much broader span as far as artists and genres (especially Rick). I’m sure that’s mostly because of the nature of music has changed so much, back in “the day” the norm was to have one producer working with one artist for a whole album. Now it’s the same 20 producers on every album.
My homie has been working with MJ a lot recently and we were talking about this, how much of that creative genius was MJ and how much was Quincy… I’m just saying Quincy didn’t knock anything else out the park other than MJ.
*I know I sound retarded talking about Thriller- the #1 all time selling record- like it’s not enough to be considered the G.O.A.T.*
July 14th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Respectable question. Quincy did make the song that is sampled for “Passin Me By” though. So…thats pretty hot. I think that the amount of garbage that Timbo makes takes him out of the running. Thats just me though. Haven’t been feelin him for a while. Lets talk about this part: “My homie has been working with MJ a lot recently”……just gon float that one out there?
July 14th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Hah. yeah i guess that is a pretty random thing to add. Yeah my boy mixed the first single from his new album (it will be his last album). He was saying mj is perfectionist to the highest degree, like puffy. He was saying that Mike had a lot to do with the production on the early stuff too (thriller).
-insert Dave Chappelle jokes here-
i like that beat timbo did for Mia. “Come around”
July 14th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Kingdom Come flip
Rick James-Super Bad.
Hammer- Can’t Touch This
Jay-Z- Kingdom Come.
JustBlaze FREAKED IT, hammer looped it, Just Chopped it into tiny single notes and replayed it. Completely changed the bpm. Close to unrecognizable.
I’m having a hard time figuring out other flips that can even come close. all i can think of is Nas-Made you look. Incredible Bongo Band-Apache had been used a bunch before. Most popularly by Sugarhill Gang or Kool G Rap – “Men at Work” (there’s a bunch more). Salaam Remi did a great job slowing it down and chopping parts out. my favorite part of that beat is the Bass that only comes in on the turnaround.
Dj Premier flipped “seven minutes of funk-the whole darn family” which had been used most popularly by epmd and alkaholiks and jay-z, but all of those guys just looped it (Best bassline ever? maybe). Primo chopped the hell out of it for “NYG’S- Giantz ta this” (on itunes)… But it’s no where near as good as Just’s Kingdom come.
those are the only ones that come to mind right now.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
I agree with everything everyone said about anything. Probably. But what about producers like Organized Noize, Howie Tee, 45 King, Large Pro, MF Doom, the Beatnuts, Buckwild, Showbiz, Diamond D, and Muggs? Lots of classics there…
July 14th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
I’m not even gonna get into the “best producers in music” thing…that’s just silly. Too much variety. Is Creed Taylor better than Brian Wilson? Is George Martin better than Stevie Wonder? That’s all crazy talk.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
As far as favorite “flips”…I know Richie thinks it ain’t flipped enough, but the Kick In The Door beat puts a 180 on I Put A Spell On You. Let’s just say none of us probly would have thought of making it. Come to think of it, Premier kills Unbelievable, too…those are the drums from the oft-used Impeach The President break. But he makes it sound new, as always. My other nomination is what Muggs did to Duke Of Earl for Hand On The Pump. Never has doo-wop sounded so menacing. The beginning of that shit used to set the party OFF!! Not exactly a flip, just a whole new way of looking at a familiar sound.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Early Muggs was insane!!! Kill a man, pigs, Hand on the pump…all outta hand.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:23 am
RC,
Q is not fucking with any of the people my list IMO. All of my guys invented aesthetics/styles/sounds that defined their genres. They are Yoda’s. Q is certainly a genius but never developed a sound that is unmistakeably his own.
Also, I FUCKING LOVE PRIMO. But just like beat selection is a factor for an emcee, making dope beats for way too many awful rappers hurt Primo slightly. Primo does not have a Chronic or a Cuban Linx. He has 3 great Gangstarr albums and 1,000,000,000,000 hot singles form the 90’s but I give the album resumes to Dre and Rza.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:43 am
Flips…
1) The Rza FLIPPED The Emotions’ “I Like It” for Verbal Intercourse – it is a loop but from a piece of the song no one even realizes is there.
2) Jay-Dee – FLIPPED Rick James “Give It To Me Baby” for Common’s “DOOINIT” – Chops anyone?
3) Hi-Tek – FLIPPED for Heatwave’s “Boogie Nights” for Reflection Eternal’s “The Blast” – Amazing what you can do with filters and hella hours
4) Trackmasters (or Rza depending on who you ask) FLIPPED Lyn Collins’ “Put It One The Line” for “I Shot ya” – see comment # 1
5) Primo has tons – Full-Clip and Mass Appeal – yes please.
July 15th, 2008 at 8:38 am
Fair points about quincy. Also many fine examples of flips. All of which are relevant. But I stand behind Just Blaze. And I think deep down, you do too.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:50 am
I think Sayre should add the first Jeru album to his list of Premier’s album classics (he produced the second one, too). If the first Group Home album were instrumental, I might put that up there, as well (sorry, Lil Dap…at least you’re better than Malachi the Nutcracker). And what about all those MOP albums? As a producer, he has the ability to do a whole record, but no one can probably afford that anymore. And even when he doesn’t produce an album exclusively, he leaves an indelible mark on it (and on hip-hop). I wouldn’t lump his work on Illmatic into the “million hot singles” category. That album would be at least 25% less classic without Primo. And what about Reasonable Doubt? Only three songs a piece, but picture those albums without him. He also had a significant impact on albums like Bahamadia’s Kollage, KRS-One’s self-titled joint and Return of the Boom Bap, Lord Finesse’s Funky Technician, OC’s Jewelz, and more. I’m not saying he hasn’t worked with some terrible rappers. He has a unique talent for giving hot beats to lackluster MCs. But just think of it this way–maybe that means he’ll work with us someday!
July 15th, 2008 at 10:12 am
This is why I think talking about Quincy Jones here is strange. Being a good producer in any world other than the rap one means a totally different thing. It doesn’t always mean bringing a “signature sound” to the project. It doesn’t mean writing all the songs, or arranging them, or anything like that. It can encompass all of those, but it basically means putting a whole team together and getting the album done in the best way possible (logistically speaking) while getting the best performance out of the musicians involved. Success can be measured in critical and popular acclaim, but many talented producers lack for actual chart-toppers. That said, Quincy Jones ain’t one of ‘em. According to Wikipedia, he’s produced/arranged/performed on at least 15 albums that have reached Number One on the Jazz charts or R&B charts (sometimes both). Many of these albums were actual Quincy Jones albums…that’s why someone like Michael Jackson hires him. Incidentally, he also produced Off The Wall and Bad for Mike. It ain’t a fluke. He’s been winning Grammies since 1963, including awards for Album of the Year, Producer of the Year, Record of the Year (twice), and many others. He produced We Are The World. He arranged Ray Charles seminal Genius+Soul=Jazz (for that alone, everyone should shut up). He did the motherfucking Wiz! Seriously, whether he’s on your top five list or not, no one should be criticizing Quincy Jones. Especially not in a post about who makes the neatest beats. Apples and oranges, y’all.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Grip,
In omitting Q and Stevie Wonder for that matter, I was trying to make clear that in my opinion it is a more impressive thing for a producer to create a “hit factory” or a signature sound that everyone else recognizes and attempts to emulate. Q is an absolute musical genius. Brilliant at bringing the best music out of his artists, and staying relevant in many genres as they evolved. I just think creating the “Motown Sound,” “The Wall of Sound” “Soulsville” etc. is more impressive. You can tell a Willie Mitchell produced song in the first four bars.
You are right about Primo… I probably should have written it this way…
RZA
Dre
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.
.
.
Primo
.
.
.
.
Timbo
Prince Paul
July 15th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
we are confusing the definition of a “flip”.
My definition-
i was thinking of it as a song (original) that has been sampled (used) before in a rap song, then a producer re-visits the same original that has already been used and “flips” it in a completely new way.
Not just a creative use or chop of the original. The producer is going back to a song that someone has already chopped/looped, then they have to do something NEW with it.
no one can beat kingdom come. There it is Rico, you called it. Kingdom Come is the best flip EVER in rap.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Sayre -you have it bad for RZA. You are going to have to defend placing him at #1 though. I have rarely heard RZA’s name mentioned as the GOAT. Primo has a longer track record, more hits, whole albums, signature sound, worked with the best Emcees ever (on everyones list), ill dj, i don’t see any category that RZA has him beat in.
How you can put RZA as #1?
July 15th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
and Dre always has co-producers that do the heavy lifting. sorry.
July 15th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Shalem…while we do agree on the greatest flip of all time, my definition of flip does not require that the sample source be already used in hip hop. I think of a ‘flip’ as when a producer makes a beat out of any given song and goes so far beyond just looping it (i.e. chopping and rearranging) that the end product sounds nothing like the original and even producers are like “how the fuck he do that?!”. That’s the Cunny definition of “flip”.
July 15th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Sha,
To my ear the first seven albums released by the Wu Tang Clan constitute the absolute best that hip-hop music has ever been. No crew, group or solo artist can boast a run of seven consecutive projects to compare with: 36 Chambers, Return To The 36 Chambers, Liquid Swords, Tical, Only Built For Cuban Linx, Ironman, and Forever.
More than any other factor, what sets these albums apart is the signature sound provided by Rza’s absolutely ingenious sample-based production. More than any other sample-based composer, Rza’s production highlights hip-hop’s multi-faceted relationship to its predecessors. RZA’s music compliments, critiques and complicates its source material.
Most of Wu-Tang’s classic songs are composed from samples of southern soul music from the 1960’s and early ’70s. These were the songs that served as the soundtrack of The Civil Rights Era in Black America. The theme music to a movement of people who truly believed “A Change Is Gonna Come.” Removed from that context, chopped, filtered, bent, stretched and reassembled into Wu-Tang instrumentals, the very same notes are stripped of that spirit. Rza’s production, especially on the albums listed earlier, conveys a tangible emptiness, a hopelessness born of Reaganomics, project living and the drug war.
By chopping, filtering, bending, stretching and reassembling the sounds of his parent’s generation, Rza “flipped” soul music until it sounded as dark and empty as the world he was living in. The brilliant contrast in tone that exists between Rza’s best work and his source material, illustrates the impact that the aforementioned “tragic ideological shift” had upon the collective psyche of black American youth with unparalleled depth and poignance.
And the Dre ghost-producer argument is such B.S. To believe that we would have to believe that Yella, Daz, Mel-Man, DOC, Hi-Tek, Focus, et. al just simply forgot how to be at all dope and/or interesting once they stopped working with Dre. Daz says he did Murder Was The Case? Let’s see does that sound more like “Cali Is Active” or “Dre Day?”
July 15th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
It is also criminal how much we are all over-looking Organized Noise
SouthernPlayalistic
ATLiens
Soul Food
Still Standing
The First Witchdoctor
The First Backbone
The Joi albums
etc.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:30 am
I did some research on the old web and if anyone’s interested, 99% of EVERYONE’S top hip hop producer lists have the same man at #1. The Sultan of Swing….The Barbarian of Boom Bap….The Emperor of the MPC….The one and only DJ Premier. The more you think about it, the more undeniable it is.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Sayre- i respect your admiration for RZA, but when all is said and done and you listen to RZA’s body of work next to Primo’s I just like Primo’s more. It ultimately comes down to a matter of opinion/taste when discussing music. To each his own.
So it’s settled, Primo is the best of all time and JustBlaze is the best new guy. I’m right all the time, everyone go home.
How come there are NO good female producers in hip-hop?
Should we do a new post for GOAT female rapper? So everyone can talk about how Lauryn Hill is the best, barely beating out MC Lyte?
July 16th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
I think you just posted it and covered all the comments.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
How the fuck is no one discussing SMITTY?
you fuckers have no taste.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:20 am
I think Primo has made a million dope beats. Probably more dope beats than anyone. I think Rza has produced more classic songs/albums.